Comments on: My writeup of Ely Greenfield’s MAX session http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/ A blog about Adobe Flex Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:04:20 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=abc hourly 1 By: megan fox http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-208382 megan fox Fri, 11 Sep 2009 15:42:00 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-208382 Sign: umsun Hello!!! rcuwwymhyw and 1212ssgfhphzye and 1178Nice blog! Sign: umsun Hello!!! rcuwwymhyw and 1212ssgfhphzye and 1178Nice blog!

]]> By: sandrar http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-208375 sandrar Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:56:46 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-208375 Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post... nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R. Hi! I was surfing and found your blog post… nice! I love your blog. :) Cheers! Sandra. R.

]]> By: Flex 4 (“Gumbo”) - first details revealed, a bunch of Words, punctuated - by Paul Robertson (http://probertson.com/) http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-72909 Flex 4 (“Gumbo”) - first details revealed, a bunch of Words, punctuated - by Paul Robertson (http://probertson.com/) Fri, 11 Apr 2008 23:36:32 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-72909 [...] Of course, this is all fairly in line with what’s been talked about previously, such as Thermo, MXML-G, Ely’s presentation about a new component structure with separation of model and view, etc. But it’s nice to see more information…and what’s not there but is hinted at is even more tantalizing. [...] [...] Of course, this is all fairly in line with what’s been talked about previously, such as Thermo, MXML-G, Ely’s presentation about a new component structure with separation of model and view, etc. But it’s nice to see more information…and what’s not there but is hinted at is even more tantalizing. [...]

]]> By: dougmccune.com » Blog Archive » We’re not waiting for Flex 4 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-42169 dougmccune.com » Blog Archive » We’re not waiting for Flex 4 Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:29:20 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-42169 [...] Ely Greenfield presented some cool ideas about the future of the Flex framework during his presentation at MAX in Chicago last year. The core idea is that they’re considering drastic changes to really apply an MVC approach to the full component set, which would mean the core components themselves would be viewless controls, allowing you to easily apply custom skins and have complete control over the look of each component. I wrote up more about Ely’s session here. The future of these changes is still unknown, I think we’re all hoping that stuff becomes the Flex 4 framework whenever that gets released. [...] [...] Ely Greenfield presented some cool ideas about the future of the Flex framework during his presentation at MAX in Chicago last year. The core idea is that they’re considering drastic changes to really apply an MVC approach to the full component set, which would mean the core components themselves would be viewless controls, allowing you to easily apply custom skins and have complete control over the look of each component. I wrote up more about Ely’s session here. The future of these changes is still unknown, I think we’re all hoping that stuff becomes the Flex 4 framework whenever that gets released. [...]

]]> By: judah http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-25888 judah Mon, 12 Nov 2007 19:14:27 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-25888 I love the new approach and am excited to see it come to fruition. This would mean possibly smaller component size, exponentially more customizable skinning and styling and behavior. The thing I like about the current component set is the ton of properties and methods they thought of using the constructive approach. I don't have to reinvent the wheel with the api they include. What I want to know is how they will reconcile the current component features set with this new approach. So we may get stripped down that are highly customizable components but what about the features that aren't included in the stripped down version. I suppose they may include an "Accordion" template, "Vertical List" template, etc with the current feature set. Or if they abstracted functionality in a way that we could easily plug it back in that would be cool. I'm talking about adding in features like accessibility, focus management, etc on a need to include basis. I love the new approach and am excited to see it come to fruition. This would mean possibly smaller component size, exponentially more customizable skinning and styling and behavior. The thing I like about the current component set is the ton of properties and methods they thought of using the constructive approach. I don’t have to reinvent the wheel with the api they include. What I want to know is how they will reconcile the current component features set with this new approach.

So we may get stripped down that are highly customizable components but what about the features that aren’t included in the stripped down version. I suppose they may include an “Accordion” template, “Vertical List” template, etc with the current feature set. Or if they abstracted functionality in a way that we could easily plug it back in that would be cool. I’m talking about adding in features like accessibility, focus management, etc on a need to include basis.

]]> By: Thomas Spellman http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-20742 Thomas Spellman Sun, 21 Oct 2007 08:45:59 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-20742 I want it NOW!!! I've been loath to learn how to become skilled at doing ItemRenderers and such because the little bit I've done has been inordinately difficult. I have a bit of joy imagining using this new way of doing it, but it seems like it'll be long time until it's available. I want it NOW!!!

I’ve been loath to learn how to become skilled at doing ItemRenderers and such because the little bit I’ve done has been inordinately difficult. I have a bit of joy imagining using this new way of doing it, but it seems like it’ll be long time until it’s available.

]]> By: Borek http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-20661 Borek Sat, 20 Oct 2007 22:05:32 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-20661 Amen. Amen.

]]> By: Doug http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-20652 Doug Sat, 20 Oct 2007 20:23:08 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-20652 I think Borek has a valid point in that we need to acknowledge where ideas and inspiration come from, and in this particular case it might be true that XAML solved the whole declarative graphics stuff far better than MXML did originally, and that now Adobe is adding into MXML what MS got right at the start. But my point about innovation and why I respect Ely so much has nothing to do with the addition of declarative graphics into MXML. What I respect is the ability to look at the problem with a fresh perspective and be open to changing your approach. I'm not amazed by the concept of declarative graphics (like you said, this has been done before). I'm amazed that Ely is able to look at the current Flex framework and think about how to really make the framework do what it's supposed to do (make creating powerful and customized RIAs fast and easy), without being locked into the current status quo. That might mean incorporating concepts from other sources or coming up with unique solutions. The important point here is that they're looking at the framework with a fresh perspective that isn't tainted by what the framework is and has been for the last 3+ years. I think Borek has a valid point in that we need to acknowledge where ideas and inspiration come from, and in this particular case it might be true that XAML solved the whole declarative graphics stuff far better than MXML did originally, and that now Adobe is adding into MXML what MS got right at the start.

But my point about innovation and why I respect Ely so much has nothing to do with the addition of declarative graphics into MXML. What I respect is the ability to look at the problem with a fresh perspective and be open to changing your approach. I’m not amazed by the concept of declarative graphics (like you said, this has been done before). I’m amazed that Ely is able to look at the current Flex framework and think about how to really make the framework do what it’s supposed to do (make creating powerful and customized RIAs fast and easy), without being locked into the current status quo. That might mean incorporating concepts from other sources or coming up with unique solutions. The important point here is that they’re looking at the framework with a fresh perspective that isn’t tainted by what the framework is and has been for the last 3+ years.

]]> By: Borek http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-20646 Borek Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:55:02 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-20646 Tony, my point was to say, that: 1) All these improvements are an outcome of healthy competition and from Adobe's standpoint, it is necessary to answer to Silverlight's superior programming model. It is not a genius of Ely, it is not thinking outside the box as was suggested above, it is just catching up with the competition. Simple but still extremely useful for Flex development community, no doubt about that. 2) I wanted to ask some questions about the rest of the presentation because obviously not everything was recorded (or shared). If you are not interested in the differences, that's fine, but I am. And Ely would be one of the best persons on this planet to ask those questions. I am not trying to be negative and I welcome those changes with big enthusiasm but I had a feeling after reading the post that Adobe is doing something very innovative or something exceptional - which they are not. Regards, Borek Tony, my point was to say, that:

1) All these improvements are an outcome of healthy competition and from Adobe’s standpoint, it is necessary to answer to Silverlight’s superior programming model. It is not a genius of Ely, it is not thinking outside the box as was suggested above, it is just catching up with the competition. Simple but still extremely useful for Flex development community, no doubt about that.

2) I wanted to ask some questions about the rest of the presentation because obviously not everything was recorded (or shared). If you are not interested in the differences, that’s fine, but I am. And Ely would be one of the best persons on this planet to ask those questions.

I am not trying to be negative and I welcome those changes with big enthusiasm but I had a feeling after reading the post that Adobe is doing something very innovative or something exceptional – which they are not.

Regards,
Borek

]]> By: Tony http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/comment-page-1/#comment-20644 Tony Sat, 20 Oct 2007 19:29:54 +0000 http://dougmccune.com/blog/2007/10/19/my-writeup-of-ely-greenfields-max-session/#comment-20644 @ Doug, Interestingly, Adobe has always taken the approach of allowing their (talented) engineers to evangelize the products. This is smart, because we always get the view from within our own experiences from someone who has been there and done that. Unlike some other companies who have Marketing trying to Evangelize to the developer (Fail!). Ely definitely feels what we are feeling, and that is what makes his view so appealing. Nice to see the lights are on! @Borek, What is your point? Who cares where the inspiration is coming from? I create applications every day that are inspired from somewhere/someone/somehow. So, who cares where this inspiration is coming from as long as it is coming. I really do not care if Silverlight got its inspiration from Flash 1.0. I am just glad they had the inspiration to create Silverlight/Flex/Air/WPF and are moving us forward. Also, I personally do not want Adobe/Microsoft worried about differences in their products. I want them worried about what developers need in these products; what productivity improvements can they give us. These are the things that should matter to these companies. @ Doug,
Interestingly, Adobe has always taken the approach of allowing their (talented) engineers to evangelize the products. This is smart, because we always get the view from within our own experiences from someone who has been there and done that. Unlike some other companies who have Marketing trying to Evangelize to the developer (Fail!). Ely definitely feels what we are feeling, and that is what makes his view so appealing. Nice to see the lights are on!

@Borek,
What is your point? Who cares where the inspiration is coming from? I create applications every day that are inspired from somewhere/someone/somehow. So, who cares where this inspiration is coming from as long as it is coming. I really do not care if Silverlight got its inspiration from Flash 1.0. I am just glad they had the inspiration to create Silverlight/Flex/Air/WPF and are moving us forward. Also, I personally do not want Adobe/Microsoft worried about differences in their products. I want them worried about what developers need in these products; what productivity improvements can they give us. These are the things that should matter to these companies.

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